EPISODE 192 1 TIMOTHY CHAPTER 2 "Say it Isn't So Rick"

Welcome to Share the Word. The theme for 1 Timothy chapter 2 seems to be based on women's roles in church leadership, but Paul certainly adds so much to not only today's podcast, but every podcast, just as Margie does. For me, this letter to Timothy has been my favorite, and you're about to hear why. 1 Timothy chapter 2. Say it isn't so, Rick. A fellow pastor I've admired for decades and who I've spoken highly of on this podcast for some things I really admire, Rick Warren, now the senior pastor, retired, I believe, of the megachurch in Southern California called Saddleback Church.

He's best known for authoring bestsellers like The Purpose Driven Life. Rick and I are the same age. I remember hearing him interviewed for the first time on James Dobson's radio program when I was in my first pastorate in the mid-1980s. I was taken aback a little, in a good way, that everything he was saying in that interview about evangelical churches needing to rethink the way we do church, I agreed with. He later wrote a book on that subject called The Purpose Driven Church. His model for an evangelical church was to remain anchored to the Bible doctrinally, but to become more contemporary in feel, and that resonated with me.

Listening to him that day was really one of the catalysts that made me want to plant a new church to try some fresh approaches to ministry. Rick and I were, until recently, even in the same denomination of churches, although he's always been on the West Coast and I've always been on the East Coast, I have never met him personally. I say until recently because within the last year I heard Rick and his church were formally expelled from the Southern Baptist Convention. Which, when I heard it, really surprised me. The issue that caused that to happen, I learned, was that he had ordained three women to be pastors at Saddleback Church. My first thought was, That can't be right.

After forty-some years of leading an evangelical church based on biblical authority, for some reason you now decide to start ordaining women as pastors? But it was true. Even though he knew the denomination's statement of faith said that the office of pastor in cooperating churches is limited to men, he did it anyways, and then went to the national convention in 2023 to argue his case. But after a lot of discussion and time spent trying to change each other's minds, the convention's credentials committee voted to expel Saddleback Church. When I read about this, I wondered what exactly would cause Rick to do an about-face on a position he had always held. It wasn't until last week that I read in The Christian Post an article in which he explained his reasons.

The reasons he laid out for changing his mind on women in ministry or women pastors, I have to say, were seriously underwhelming. His arguments were weak and, from my view, pretty contrived. If someone had made the same arguments to him twenty years ago, he would have chuckled, I bet. So what really changed? I can't say for sure, but my hunch is what changed is the world around us, the society around us, which is making it harder and harder to stay anchored to God's Word and still be seen as, you know, contemporary, still be looked at favorably by the media and so forth, looked at as Christians, sure. But seen as kinda with it, if you know what I mean, in step with the times, and he's in Southern California.

Take that into account. This has happened over many issues in the past 100 years in America. Women serving as church leaders, pastors, and so on just happens to be on the front burner right now among evangelicals. As Margie explained last time, 1 Timothy is one of the three New Testament letters categorized as pastoral epistles. That label comes from the fact that they were written to men Paul had trained in putting in charge of churches as pastors, called in the epistles usually elders or overseers. The content of the pastoral epistles is made up of both personal instructions to these leaders, as well as instructions they were to teach and apply in the churches where they were in charge.

In chapter 3, Paul says, I am writing these things to you now, even though I hope to be with you soon, so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth. What we're going to talk about now is part of the how people must conduct themselves in the household of God thing, conduct themselves in church. We're not about stirring up controversies for clicks on Share the Word. You know that by now. We're about explaining the New Testament's biggest ideas.

We acknowledge that Christians who take the Bible seriously can still have interpretational differences. I don't like to get hung up on those if we can help it, especially if they're not of great practical importance. In fact, Paul tells Timothy multiple times, one way and another in these very letters, not to get wrapped up in foolish arguments or refuse to get drawn into pointless controversies. Too many online Christian sites unfortunately ignore that and are all about controversies. But at the same time, there are some subjects that have become controversial about which church leaders must decide where they stand. And we're running into one of them today here in 1 Timothy chapter 2.

In chapters 2 and 3, Paul is giving Timothy, who's overseeing churches in and around Ephesus, instructions for when they meet together for church services. It's in that context that he writes these things. Listen. First of all, I urge that requests, prayers, intercession, and thanksgiving be made on behalf of all people, or kings and for all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for us all.

For this, I was appointed as a preacher and an apostle, as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Therefore, I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. When the early Christians gathered, Paul is saying part of their time should be spent in public prayer together. They should pray for those all around them because Jesus died for all people and God wants all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. He stresses that Jesus is the only way to God, the only mediator between us humans and our holy Creator, the one who paid the ransom price to save us, referring to what Jesus did on the cross. He also says they should pray specifically for kings and all who are in authority.

Why would they be doing that? Well, so that you may be able to lead quiet, peaceful lives, he says. Well, nothing sounds too controversial there, but as he completes his instruction about prayer and their services, he says, I want the men to do this. I want men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger. There is, in the language in which Paul was writing, a word translated men used for people in general, the word anthropos, and a different word for men when referring to adult males in particular. Here he used the word for adult males.

The word is aner. In the public services, when the church gathers, men should lead in prayer, Paul writes. If we had any doubt about what he is saying, he goes on with a contrast by saying, Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair, gold, pearls, expensive apparel, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness, but I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. Hmm. Therefore, I want men to do this, and I want women to do this, but I don't want women to do that.

The therefore, Paul opens these instructions with, points back to what he has just written about being appointed a preacher and apostle and a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Paul's not just stating an opinion here. He's giving instructions to the Gentile churches as a spokesman for God. He's speaking with the authority of an apostle of Christ. We can't disregard what he says here as only his personal opinion, as some do, nor can we treat what he has written as narrow instructions applying only to that point in time or to that one congregation in Ephesus, because he's written very similar things in 1 Corinthians, both in chapter 11 and again in chapter 14. It's true that since the New Testament was written in a specific historical and cultural context, some practices then would seem out of place now.

For example, in his epistles, Paul wrote near the end of them sometimes, Greet one another with a holy kiss. That was a customary way to greet people then. It's not now, at least not where I live, except perhaps among those who are very close friends of mine or possibly family members. What's important is the idea of greeting and warmly connecting with people at church, not the way the greeting is done, function over form, we would say. That applies in that case. But this thing about women and leadership in church, that is not one of those cases.

The instructions about conduct of women and men at church in this chapter are not rooted in a particular culture, but rooted in God's design for men and women from the beginning of creation. We'll discuss that more in a minute. So, what are we 21st century Christians supposed to do with this? How about we obey it? Remember the theme verse for 1 Timothy is, I'm writing these things so you will know how to conduct yourselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

God wants to see foundational truths lived out in the context of the gathered church, which is to be the pillar and support of the truth, an image expressing its role of teaching and preserving things God says are right and true. Interestingly, and I'm old enough to know this, among Christians prior to about 1970, nothing about these instructions in 1 Timothy chapter 2 would have seemed controversial to anyone who took the Bible as the authority for doctrine and practice. One stat I found which confirms that is that in 1960, between 2 and 3 percent of churches had women in pastoral roles, that is, females who were principal leaders or preachers in a local church setting. 2 percent, or at most 3 percent. Today that's above 20 percent, and it's growing. Last statistic I saw said that of those now just entering Protestant seminaries today, 35 percent are women.

It doesn't surprise me that liberal mainline Protestant churches make up most of that number because they don't take the Bible's authority seriously anyway. What surprises me is when I read about evangelical churches and evangelical leaders following suit, because the verses in question, like the ones here in 1 Timothy chapter 2, they don't seem that hard to understand with normal exegesis. Listen to them again. I want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds appropriate for women who profess to worship God. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must remain quiet.

Remember, the context of these instructions is in the meetings of the Ephesian churches, during church services, as we'd say. When this subject comes up about the roles of men and women in church today, you'll hear the terms egalitarian and complementarian. These big words simply mean egalitarian, those people who believe there should be no distinctions between men's and women's roles, and complementarian refers to those who recognize there are distinctions in roles, both in the marriage relationship and in church relationships. The complementarian view is that although men and women are of equal dignity and spiritual value, God has made us different and wants us to maintain differences in how we relate, how we look, what spiritual roles we function in, and so on.

Pretty sure Paul would count himself a complementarian could he speak into today's debate, because when he gave these instructions in 1 Timothy 2 about men and women in church settings, he based them, as I mentioned a moment ago, not on what was appropriate in the culture at the time, but on how God made man and woman at the beginning of creation. He writes here at verse 12, I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man; she must remain quiet, and then adds, for Adam was first formed, then Eve. He's emphasizing something about God's order from day one. Eve was created after Adam to be Adam's helper, his complement. We notice this distinction in our lesson from 1 Corinthians 11:2, where there are similar instructions. There it says, I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Complementarians understand headships to refer to the order in God's plan. Christ is not inferior or less than God the Father, yet God the Father is His head. There is an order even among the Trinity, and Christ is, in every man's sense, his head, and if married, a woman's head is her husband. It's because that order is built into creation that God wants to see it honored and reflected among His people. That's why Paul instructs that in the church, women are not to be the ones teaching and preaching and exercising authority as elders and pastors. Men and women are to worship together, yes, but women should remain quiet in that setting.

Public prayer, public preaching and teaching, those activities are to be reserved for men. Again, this is not something just for Ephesus. It's consistent with what the New Testament says elsewhere. It's impossible to get inside anyone's head or heart or certainly to judge their motives. But when I read or listen to people, as I read Rick Warren's explanation for his flip-flop on this question after forty-some years, I can't help but wonder how much the desire to be culturally acceptable has played into that. In the terms of Romans 12:2, we're not supposed to let the world squeeze us into its mold.

You can decide for yourself, of course. We all have the freedom of conscience to do that. But my position, based on Scripture, seems to be pretty clear. Scripture is not going to change based on the trends of modern society. God has reasons for His instructions, reasons He wants men to be invisible leadership and teaching positions in the local church. My hunch is that one big reason is because He wants men to be the spiritual leaders and teachers at home as well.

So what's done at church should model and encourage for men what they should be doing individually at home with their families. That's just my observation. But where I've seen women become principal leaders of churches, I've seen men grow less involved and less motivated to step into their God-given roles as spiritual leaders. There's more 1 Timothy chapter 2 has to say on this subject, but isn't this all consistent with what Jesus modeled for us when choosing His apostles, the original spiritual leaders for the church? He could certainly have chosen six men and six women if the egalitarian view was correct, but He didn't. Then in the next generation, as we read about Paul's church planting teams, again we see him selecting and training men like Timothy, Titus, Aristarchus, Tychicus, Epaphras, and others.

And moving forward again, when he gives instructions for Timothy and Titus about the next generation of church leaders, he writes, If any man aspires to the office of overseer, that is local church leader, it's a good work he desires to do. Then goes on, Make sure any man you choose, Timothy, has good character. For example, he must have eyes only for his own wife. And then later, he must know how to manage his own household well. As he continues with the qualifications, it's he, he, he, he. In Titus chapter 1, the parallel passage about church leaders, it's the same.

This was the pattern and practice for local church leadership from the beginning of the Christian era. Are we supposed to believe that we can now ignore and overturn what these passages of God's Word say because they no longer jibe with our society's feelings? I could never be comfortable with that. I don't think Jesus chose men as the church's first leaders because he was afraid to upset the patriarchal culture of his time. That's not the reason he chose Peter and John to be apostles, rather than, say, Mary Magdalene or Mary of Bethany. Those women were inarguably every bit as committed to him as any man.

But he chose men for those foundational offices because, I think, it was consistent with the divine order from the time of creation, consistent with the concept of male spiritual headship. None of this is to say that in other settings women cannot lead. I've emphasized the application for these instructions in the New Testament is in the Christian home and in the local church. As far as I can see, there's nothing in the New Testament prohibiting Christian women from leading a business or leading a school or leading a government or teaching a classroom full of men at a college. And there's nothing even that I can see wrong that prohibits a woman from teaching God's Word in settings outside of church services.

For example, in a private setting, Priscilla, along with her husband, personally instructed Apollos in the Christian faith at their home, a man who had become an important church leader, according to Acts chapter 18. And women are instructed to teach other women in Titus chapter 2, as we'll soon see. So if you're wondering, this is why we are comfortable with Margie, who's a very experienced Bible teacher, contributing on our podcast. It's the modern version, I think, of what Priscilla was doing in Paul's day. In Paul's day, he considered her a very valuable ministry partner. She was sharing her understanding of God's Word with a man in a personal setting.

We feel women, too, especially who tune in to Share the Word, will appreciate hearing from another woman from time to time. Margie is not a pastor. She's not an elder in a local church, and she doesn't aspire to be. But she loves to share her knowledge of and love for God's Word with other people, as all believers should be looking for opportunities to do. The instructions in chapter 2 connected to this about how women should dress and present themselves at church. Those things are also related to God's interest in order.

Women should not be trying to draw attention to themselves by the way they look at church. That's inappropriate and distracting from where our focus should be. In Ephesus, as among the high society in the empire's other major cities, sounds like women were into big hair and gold jewelry and pearls and so on. Flashy jewelry, expensive clothes, then as now, are a way for some women to say, Look at me. But that's not appropriate for church, Paul is saying. Dress modestly and behave with propriety.

Seek to get recognized for your good deeds, not your physical appearance and attractiveness to men. In a church service, attention should be focused on worshiping God and listening to His Word. Not on women who dress immodestly or who look like they're trying to emulate a Hollywood starlet on the red carpet. If you're a Christian, I hope your heart attitude is in tune with these things. Regardless of what the culture around us is doing, we need the courage to go against the flow when necessary, in loyalty to God's Word and His ways. Our heart and our attitudes need to reflect submissiveness to Him, not the culture around us.

Submissiveness to Him above anything else. And our behavior and even our personal style should reflect respect for God's divine order. Thanks for listening. This is Paul for Share the Word. Thanks, Paul. I've noticed that this and other similar topics have been creating diversity among churches around the world, and I've certainly noticed an influx of people leaving their churches because of this approach to ministry and reworking Scripture in order to make it fit the narrative of society.

And society is simply gone—I don't even know what adjective to put here. And here's a challenge: examine your church. Is it straying from God's Word? Are you hearing things like, The Bible is antiquated, or The people of those times were so different than us, or how about this one: Times have changed, and we need to keep up with this world. I've noticed that those spouting that false teaching seem to be saying the same thing about the Constitution of the United States. Ooh, did I say that out loud?

I guess I did. I'm not getting political. I'm just making a point that when you see changes being made, question why. Do they want change for the sake of control? Is the change straying from God's Word as God intended? I think I just got controversial.

We'd love to hear your thoughts. Info at sharetheword.org.